Brian Ciciora | Truewerk

In this episode, I chat with the founder of Truewerk, Brian Ciciora. Brian’s background is in construction and product design, which provides him with the technical chops to design workwear and the experience to know what contractors need.

I learned a lot from Brian on what it takes to start your own business and why Truewerk believes they are the future of workwear.

https://truewerk.com/

Transcript

spk_0:   0:02
welcome to Tool Crave a podcast right shot with the best and brightest makers to gain insights on how they make and discover which tools they really use and which tools they covet. I'm Timothy Doll, the founder of Charles and Hudson Media and former editor at Popular Mechanics Lifehacker and this old House. In this episode, I checked with the founder of True work, Bryan Sikora. Brian's background is in construction and product design, which provides him with the technical chops to design work, wear and the experience to know what contractors need on the job site to protect him from the elements and allow them to perform at a high level. I learned from Brian and what it takes to start your own business and why truly believes they have a future of work where Hello, Brian. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

spk_1:   0:56
Don't be great to be here.

spk_0:   0:57
Yes, so I'm give a little bit of ah background here. I've actually I want to say I'm very, really impressed with what you've done just in a really short amount of time regarding creating great apparel workwear, but also just getting it out there so that people know about it. Um, I just want to share a quick rules. Well, quick story. This last year, Goto I go to the Milwaukee New Tool Symposium every year, and there was a crew of guys wearing true work that just kind of stood out from the rest. And whether I assume you guys kind of coordinated that, whether you didn't, um, it was impressive. They looked Les look great. And, you know, kudos to you and your team for kind of putting that together, But But in general, you guys are just your desert is killing it.

spk_1:   1:39
What? We appreciate it. You know, um, there was maybe a tiny bit of coordination, but a lot of the you know, a lot of that's just natural, I think, you know, for us getting in touch with a lot of people in that community. Ah, lot of the people that were that Milwaukee Symposium started out its customers of ours early on, and when they were first building their followers, and we've kind of, you know, a little bit all kind of growing up together. So it's it's cool to see them representing when they feel what they feel inclined to do that.

spk_0:   2:02
I mean, it seems like a lot of these guys to in there. I mean, you guys were kind of hitting, hitting the right stride with Maybe I'm just following kind of the same people. But you know, even an instagram stories and all the videos they're doing, they're wearing to work and they're they're wrapping it. And it's just natural. And that just again, no. Ah, all the thumbs up to you guys because it's just it seems like it's worked out great for you. And at least for me and in my space and the people I'm following and talking to, it's you guys were out there, so that's a huge accomplishment.

spk_1:   2:34
Well, we appreciate that. You know, for us, it's it's community of people. It's our responsibility and into a certain extent are our joy to take care of those folks and to participate and help tell their stories. Is there, um, you know, they're working hard to educate and to inspire and to inform a lot of the the folks that were interested in helping out, too. So it's Ah, it's kind of Ah, pretty cool, virtuous cycle, I think.

spk_0:   2:56
Can you go back a bit into your story and kind of what got you motivated and started with with work where it's a bit of ah, it's quite a niche, especially for kind of an independent for somebody just starting out. Um, talked a little about that.

spk_1:   3:10
Sure, Yeah. So hopefully I'm not going back, you know, sort of too far here. But, um, you know, like, probably a lot of your list. There's my reputation building were spent with my father and in our garage, working on our cars. We had old Volvo was growing up in our old house and, um, kind of spent all my childhood and early teens building stuff. Um, and you sort of grew up in that environment, rebuilt in Old Willy's Jeep and when I was 16 and knew I always was really passionate about building and creating and had the opportunity to study engineering in school. And, um, while I was going through that worked in machine shops and after school built fuel cells and data storage devices, medical devices and just spent almost my whole life building really cool stuff, and it's it's been awesome. Um, when I was yes, it was 7 4008 or so the company had been working for. I was actually in the sales side of that business and, um, and ironically sort of probably made more money in that than I have any other part of my life, but didn't really enjoy it. The company folded, and I have this kind of cool opportunity toe, Um, you go up to Winter Park in Colorado. So for the kind of a ski resort area and build a couple of town homes up there and, um, getting back to kind of my roots in building and is those houses kind of wrapped up? I was doing furniture, um, working with arbors down in the Denver area that we take down old trees and then I would rough, cut those into tabletops and then build steel frames for them and was building who's buying steel from local metal Fab shop of the Winter park. And they kind of talked me into doing a bunch of metal fabrication for them, and I was kind of having the time of my life, to be honest with you, it was it was reconnecting with, you know, community of people that I loved in the in the trades and all the passion that comes from creating and building in the sense of purpose around that, um, at the same time, I kind of noticed this was 9000 were winner parts about 9000 feet in the middle of winter in elevation. And so, you know, we'd start our days up there, and we're wearing traditional kind of cotton canvas clothing, denim, and you go out in the snow in the morning and you'd watch the, you know, sort of the water line. Your your pant leg would start to soak up moisture, and it comes, you know, early afternoon the sun would start to go down, and that would turn into a big icicle around your leg, and it was kind of the way it was. You know, you'd hoped it would be dry by morning. We just all sort of assumed that was the nature of it. Uh, about the same time, I'd also been doing a bunch of climbing and skiing and took a trip to Europe. And I think I was probably in Germany or in Austria or something, and looked around and sort of realized like the guys there where they were all building and working in stuff that it was his technical is the, you know, north face and dark Terex clothing that I was climbing and skiing on. And it sort of dawned on me like, Why are we not using these fabrics for for construction and for building? And so, you know, I kind of came back to the States and immediately switched, and for a few months, I was, um, you know, using those types of fabrics and products in the building trades, and at about the same time, I got a I got a call from some friends of mine at a company called Backcountry Access. It makes no safety equipment down in the boulder area. And so the long story short, I ended up taking a job down there, building these airbag systems. Think about like, uh, basically big pillow that deploys out of the top of a backpack if you get into an avalanche and that kind of float you onto the surface. And so, um, I went down there ostensibly for two weeks, and I turned to months, and six years later, I was kind of running all the product design and product development for this company. We're making these really technical, um, you know, backpacks that had a like, a 2000 PS. I compressed gas cylinder is interesting, Venturi. And, you know, people that are in the building in engineering thing. It was a super cool deal. Um, we ended up selling that business to key to in 2013 or something, and I kind of had this chance to step back and figure out what I wanted to do next. And, you know, true work was sort of the confluence of a bunch of these things where, you know, it's bad, a bunch of time building backpacks and soft goods. So I have this this experience in that world, and I was really excited to get back to working in the trades and working with that community and this opportunity to build really technical, high performance work where was still, you know, just not being addressed by the U. S. Manufacturers and U. S brands. And so that was kind of what got started 2015. I think we launched our first little four piece collection just to see if it was something people were interested in, and it's kind of snowballed since then.

spk_0:   7:41
Yeah, that's a That's a great story mean, Like it says, your work wear and his senses in your DNA that you've always, you know, had consideration with with what you're wearing, regards to the application are using it in whether you're wrenching on your Jeep in the garage or building homes. It sounds like you really kind of had a better idea. Orbiter, maybe. Ah, perspective on workwear than maybe some designer who maybe just comes up. Ah, necessary manufacturer designing clothes first and like application. Second, it sounds like you kind of have gone the other way. Yeah,

spk_1:   8:16
I think that's that's totally the case. And I'll be honest, like in my career and product design and product development. And that's always been, you know, kind of, Ah, the core. And if you're if you're not a firsthand user and somebody who can appreciate the features of the product, it gets really hard because you have to. You have to lie a lot on empathy and like trying to imagine what people want, what they do and, you know, and for us, it's There are when somebody comes to me and they say, Oh, geez, you know, it would be great if we had this pocket for this reason or, you know, what if it did this? I'm like, Oh, yeah, of course, like, that would be that would be awesome. I understand exactly why that is, and, you know, prototypes get tested in the refinement of the product. It's just gotta be grounded in the job site in order for it to work at the level we wanted to,

spk_0:   8:55
right? Right. It's interesting how you mentioned Europe, because, I mean, I have similar experiences, you know, going over there and kind of seeing these work crews that they actually they look really sharp, and it looks like the gear they're wearing is set up for. You know, I've been there when it's when it's cold. When it's wet, rainy, they're not wearing denim and, you know, cotton duck tops. They're just they're looks like they're ready for kind of any to continue through. The elements work through it. But you know, at the end of the day they have something that's that's just like you said, technical. The technical approach to that, and they're all wearing the same uniform, so that's that's interesting. You kind of were inspired by that

spk_1:   9:31
for sure. Yeah, I think you know, their parts of that that aren't that are frankly inspirational and places and things that we can learn and adopt from and you know, their parts of it that, frankly, I think we're doing, you know, have the opportunity do better than what they're doing. So I don't know that we just got back from the April Say show in Germany in early November, which is this, like every other year, Massive workwear show. And it's kind of interesting to watch how you know, first time I went there is just totally blown away by like, Oh my gosh, we have so much ground to take in terms of the standard that these guys are putting out relative toe. You know what we were producing? And it's cool to go back in a couple years later and realize that there's you're really only a handful of brands in the world today that I think are you know, as technical is the product that we're putting out. Um, so, you know, I think Europe is set the standard for years But I think you know, our objective is to certainly surpassed what they're doing in, if not now, in the not too distant future.

spk_0:   10:22
Why do you think Europe is kind of ahead of it ahead of us on that? Like, you know, it seemed just, you know, work wear, and the technical aspect of it just hasn't. It's still, you know, growing. It's so the awareness of it is still, you know, behind what's happening over there. Why why do you think that?

spk_1:   10:41
Yeah, I'm sure there's There's a number of pieces to this. I think you know. Part of it is that there is a We have a few American brands that have been very heavily invested in kind of, Ah, you know, a vintage or a classic aesthetic have spent a lot of time and effort convincing people that cotton duck and denim are, uh, these these really durable, you know, amazing work fabrics. And that was true 150 years ago in Hamilton Carhartt. And, you know, Levi Strauss set out to try and revolutionize work where in the 18 hundreds, um, if you think about the transcontinental railroad and the gold rush like and if that cart the strategies were tech innovators of their date, right? Like they took, they took this, you know, tent fabric that was used for covered wagons. And they adopted it to work. Where and it was It was brilliant. You know, Levi Strauss patented the rivet. They were, they were on their game. And, you know, unfortunately, the US, um, work where innovation kind of stalled, right? Gortex and, um, North face and Patagonia. And, you know, these other brands in the eighties pioneered work climbing, you know, tech outerwear into the climbing and skiing markets. We watched you're under armour. Bring this to team sports. We've watched coup you and you know, Sitka, Jason Harrison. What he did with with Sitka and call you in the hunting market recently. Um, you know, certainly more recently, it's every other segment in the outerwear space has seen the, you know, sort of modernization, but worked where has is unfortunately kind of been left behind. And, you know, it's our sort of our belief that the people who are working to make civilized life happen should be the first, not the last two Bennett for from, you know, for tech innovation

spk_0:   12:24
right in the market is just a huge market, and these people are all I mean, there's and people are going through these clothes. It's not like I mean, it's not just a one off sort of outdoor stuff. It's just seems like there's like like as you know, a big opportunity here for you guys to kind of just grasp it, take it and run with it

spk_1:   12:43
for sure. Yeah, I think that's that was sort of what we what we thought would be the case. It's It's what in what we're seeing happening And I think, you know, part of it's a product opportunity and we're certainly passionate about the detail in the technical performance aspects of what we're building. And I think the other side of it is that you know, is a brand we view ourselves is part of the community and there's a There's a broader discussion to be had around the trades and industrial athletes is we sometimes refer to our customers in term it. There's a whole new generation of people that are, um, that are coming into the trades and being industrial athletes as a way of life, and, um, you know for me. I know personally, there's my greatest periods in my career. Have been spent on job sites building with my hands and in doing that type of work. And it's it's a It's a way of life that I think is very, um, very much not understood in particular American society today. There's a lot of focus on going to college and getting jobs at Facebook and Google. And, you know, the reality is that the quality of life that's afforded by those types of opportunities is just in many cases, nowhere near the quality of life that there are customers enjoy. And so I think a lot of it was a brand and is we look at what we're trying to do. Half of it is around the product innovation on and the other is, is about trying to really protect and promote and power of the people that are wearing our product and what are part of our community,

spk_0:   14:10
right? It sounds like you're singularly focused on your core user, which is important, and it comes through when you're I mean, I'm reading the tags when I'm reading, you know the insert on the garments. It's It's very clear that hey, you're all about You know, these men and women who are in the trades who are out there every day. And, you know, I appreciate that as opposed to maybe some of these other Ah ah, I was just You said the car to Dickie's of the World. They've been doing it for years, but then you have, like, brands like Patagonia, kind of jumping in, putting your toe in the water and kind of sing with us, try this and see what this is but doesn't seem as authentic. And to me, it doesn't seem like maybe that's why they haven't hasn't picked up, like maybe they thought it would. They just they saw an opportunity and we're trying to go for it, but it sounds like you guys are definitely just, you know, focus on that, and I know we can. We could speak for probably at length regarding the trades and the opportunities there for younger people to get involved in. Like you said, I like how you put it with the little lifestyle and the opportunity and gonna run your own business to invest in yourself as opposed to, you know, working for a tech company are going going that direction. Um, that's something that, you know people don't really over there they're not aware of, and it's not really discussed. Yeah,

spk_1:   15:24
you bet. It's just exciting to see, you know, people who have options young men and women who could go into any clear they wanted And, you know, to see them increasingly taking the path of this way of life on its, I think, on balance, them and their parents and their community recognizing that of all of the options afforded to them, this is this is the path. It's a sense of purpose that comes from building the, um, you know, it's a whole way of life, and when they put it all together and they they see what's happening, it's I think we're starting to attract a new group of folks who, um, who are gonna make a big difference in this industry over the next. You know, the next, however many years.

spk_0:   16:03
Yeah, I know that. I mean everything. It sounds like you guys are on the right path. That's awesome. I know that. You know, from my experience, my just ah little background. My wife um, she start her own clothing line. We lived in New York about 10 years ago, and so I was kind of along the ride with just from, you know, putting together samples from figuring out production from, you know, the marketing sales aspect of it. And it's a You're in a crazy, crazy business, crazy industry. And, you know, it's something that, you know, we look she kind of It was, like, pretty much for run was, uh oh, Ford. Uh oh. Wait. 09 And, you know, she went from hand beating tops in her in her apartment to delivering to Nordstrom and and the Bloomingdale's in the world. So, you know, that was a really quick fast trajectory and figuring out, you know, how you're gonna meet the demands of an order. Things like that. And And And that part of it is something that I don't feel people realize how difficult it is to get to where you've been and to see. Okay, Eve. Now, you know, true work is now being seen in front of, you know, 1000 people every day. You're selling X number of units, you know, But to get to that, it's I understand. It's ah, it's a journey in the hall. Is there any part of that story that you can share That kind of at these serendipitous kind of things that come together and say, Okay, this is, you know, maybe some unexpected parts of production of making a sample, and and I mean, we still remember when our finest memory is putting a sample together, getting it sent back and being like this looks totally different, you know? And like, where do we go now? Because we have to deliver in six weeks or something. Um, any anything like that that you can share regarding kind of some of the early days of true work? Yeah.

spk_1:   17:48
I mean, there's there's so much to it, right? It's cool. Did you know you certainly lived it. Um, you know, there's I don't want to say this. I mean, I think so much of great product design and building things is the process of, um, trying to start small and make sure that you're getting the basics right before you start to go too fast. And so you know where it's haven't been at this for, you know, dozens of years, but um, we really took our time early on. I think r r t to pant, which is our flagship pan has been through, I don't know, a dozen different iterations that, you know, we've repeatedly tried to refine pockets and fit and, um, I kind of used the term We have got no sense of implied perfection, right? We have nothing. Nothing we are doing right now. Um, you know, we don't look at it and say, Boy, that's that's it. We've we nailed it. So for us, it's a lot of continuing to listen to our customers and taking in feedback and using the product and continually trying to make it better. And I think our supply chain is a really important piece of that. We've engineered a lot of the supply chain to provide us with, Ah, a lot more versatility than what you would get from the traditional apparel manufacturers, where people are just sort of writing purchase orders and they're sending him overseas, and then they're waiting to see what comes back. I mean, I spend probably on average, over the last 12 years, I've spent 2.5 3 months overseas working hand in hand with our supply chain. And, um, it just takes a really hands on approach. And, you know, anybody that's built product a lot of your from from houses Thio two apparel knows that if you the level of detail in the amount of, um, uh, sort of performance you get back is related to how much effort you put into those details. And so for us, it's ah, um, kind of a labor of love, I guess,

spk_0:   19:40
right? How does it work in work? Warehouse. What is your approach regards to, you know, putting together a collection having seasons? Are you like like selling? Is there a Celtic? I I just I guess only because, you know, my experience that we had was we had way to come for the collection like every couple months and are just always work on the next collection and and then selling of that and all of that. And so it's just like a boom, boom, boom, boom And then, as you know, having the capital to produce it to did it up. So how does it work when you have, like, the tea, too? And you know, you like you said, you have different iterations, but it remains the same. You know that the name stays the same, but maybe, you know, just it's just it's It's so different. We have different features. Is there is there? Are you behold into a seasonal sort of thing, or is it like, hey, people want they love the teacher, They want to keep coming back for it. And hey, here it is always here.

spk_1:   20:32
Yeah, it's a really good question. And this is a really interesting aspect to work where that really separates it from almost every other type of, you know, sort of fashion or apparel. We we really think of our products as tools, not as not as fashion. Um, And so when you think about, we're not trying to create new new collections, new styles, new fashions in really in any sense of urgency, our objective is to try and get the basics down really, really well. And so, you know, we don't have any pressure. Frank were a direct to consumer brand, so we don't sell through retail, so we don't have ah wholesale retail seasonal cycle that we're trying to hit. We don't have, um you know, uh, retail stores that are tryingto, you know, fill orders. We basically get to work on a product until it until it's ready for release. And at that point we'll put it into the market and, um is it needs? We can update it. We just have a lot more flexibility. One Beiber to of things work were being kind of a unique animal in this regard and then to being directed consumer, we have, ah, lot more flexibility to released products, kind of when they're ready and not not on some schedule that's dictated by, ah, Wholesale

spk_0:   21:45
Channel right director consumer model. I'm sure it has its It's its drawbacks, but just sounds like a dream compared to the wholesaler retailer relationship. Um, the pricing and just in all of that, just seemed the margins I assumed I would be so much better just sounds like that's the way to do it and that those tools didn't really exist when we were doing it and there was pushed, it was pushed back from from holds it from retailers. Regarding if we want to sell her seller own ah product through our website, the a lot of times they would say no you can't sell this one. And and they were just sent, you know, their price sensitive. And so, you know, they were making the big order, and we weren't selling that much anyway. So, um, now it just It's great that the way that script has flipped and e commerce is just every year just growing, and people are used to order online and and so that just sounds like it's like you said. It just takes you out of that. That's vicious cycle that, uh, that the retailers have to go to have to go through.

spk_1:   22:44
Yeah, No, you're exactly right there. You know, there's a handful of real big benefits to being direct to consumer, and certainly the margin structure is one of them. Um, at the end of the day, we don't end up with a ton more margin in its being kept by the business. But what we're able to do is so you think about like a traditional wholesale model. People will take their cost of goods and multiplied by somewhere between four and five X to get to your your retail price. And so you're taking cost of goods. This is again a traditional retail model. You take your cost of goods, you multiply that by two and you get to your wholesale price and then your wholesaler, whether that's the retail store that you're selling to, most likely they will do what they call key stoning, which is basically double that price. And so the story you're buying from if you're a consumer, is generally buying at half the price that they're turning around and selling it to you for, um, which is, frankly, a lot of margin. And I think we we look at that and just think, you know, is ah as a brand, are we able to deploy that that those dollars in a way that better benefits the customer than simply putting it into a big box store? And so, you know, we're able to take, um, and spend most of that frankly, goes into fabrics. We'll spend you probably somewhere between two and five times more on a yard of fabric than a traditional ah, work where brand might and so much of the function of the product is driven by the performance of the fabric. And no matter how you try, you can't you can't buy great fabric cheap. And so having a business model that allows us to invest in the fabric is pretty hard, Thio hard to compete against. I mean, basically, if here you're selling through wholesale and retail, you're forced. Either. If you want to match our price, you've gotta buy cheaper fabric and less, um, lower performance garment. Or if you want a match, our performance, you're gonna probably be somewhere between 30 and 50% more expensive. So those are the upsides combined with, um, you know, I talk a lot about rate of improvement. How fast are we getting better? And the, uh, the connection we have to our customers. If we put a product into the market and the fit isn't right, the pockets aren't right. We know about it the next day. I mean, people will start calling and emailing, and we get that literally within 24 hours. If you're selling through wholesale, I mean, how long would it take? From the time that you guys ship the product to one of your wholesalers, before you might get feedback

spk_0:   25:10
months, then it has to go through, usually go to the retailer first, and then it has to trickle down to you. And if that ever happens, it's, um Yeah, that's a great question.

spk_1:   25:19
Yeah, so it's, you know, you, you think is much as anything that feedback from our from our customers. It just allows us to get better faster than anybody else. And I think if your goal is to be the best in the world, you know, fundamentally, it's not getting better faster than everybody else.

spk_0:   25:34
All right,

spk_1:   25:34
so that's that retail model. And you know, the downside is that it's harder to get the brand out there. And so you know, we we rely on word of mouth. We've been, you know, so grateful for all the people who have helped us, you know, even just telling their bodies about company because we're not able to just drop it into a big distribution channel. And so, you know, it's slower for us. It's a little more methodical. It's but fundamentally, I think it's, um, you know, it's consistent with how we believe good businesses should be built, you know, just kind of 11 satisfied group at a time.

spk_0:   26:05
All right, So tell me about the current collection right now. How many pieces? What does that consist of? Um uh, I couldn't go through that.

spk_1:   26:13
Yeah, so you know, the core, you know, line for us is our T line. And the way our numbering works like we have t one pants and t to pants and t three pants. And basically, the bigger the number of the warmer, the peace. So, like, our tea for work, hoodie is basically ah park. And we've got folks that are wearing those on cell phone towers in the middle of, you know, Minnesota, 200 feet in the air in the middle of winter, and it's ah, it's a piece that it actually is a, uh, event in the back that allows youto clip a dorsal attachment to it. So if you've got a fall arrest harness like you might use on a tower, you can actually wear the jacket over your your hardest. Um and then you know, all the way down to the T 0.5 work, Cody, which is our best selling summer way Top. It's ah you pf protective Ah, son Hoody. And that's that's one step up from sunscreen. So the tea line is our are kind of really broadly applicable performance driven workwear line. And it's largely architected to work as a system, which is actually kind of different from the approach that most other work where brands have taken. Where you know, you buy one big jacket over here and you buy a pair of pants over there and you try to put them all together and you end up with layers that don't match. They're too big. They don't slide next to one another. Um, party line is it was architected so that the base layers, like a T 10.5 work hoodie, will fit in and work together with mid layers, whether that's the quilted jacket or the the police pieces that we make. And then, of course, like our teeth rework hoody, which is our, um, probably our best selling outerwear Top Ah is designed is ah is kind of an XO later an outer layer, um, to bring the whole system together. So that's the the T line. There are two other kind of, um collections, if you will, that that are on either side of that. One is called the X Line, and this is these things are the X in the video lines are kind of in development, and we'll be become bigger pieces of what we're doing over the course of the next year. But basically every EEO stands for everyday ops, and it's a kind of slightly more casual still, you know, performance we're using fabrics was stretched to them. There's still technical designs, but a little bit more what you might wear if you were a ah general contractor who's spending a bunch of time in an office and then needing to be on the site. Oh, maybe less. Then somebody who's doing, you know, framing work and then the The X line. On the other side of that is our kind of ultra technical line. So there are a few pieces that are in the works right now on the X line. That would be kind of nish oriented. They're not mass market in the same sense, but they'd be really appreciated by a small group of people who are doing something that's just really specific. And so, you know, that's to certain extent. The excellent is also my playground toe toe. Look at new products that were just, you know, we're super excited about, but we're maybe not ready to put into our don't belong in, like the mass market position that the T line

spk_0:   29:06
is in right action just on your website right now. And ah, the video transit pant that looks new Look sharp.

spk_1:   29:13
Yeah, So that's Ah, that's kind of an interesting piece. We literally just put that on the website, you know, probably 7 10 days ago. And it's it's kind of a cross. It's like kind of a work jogger. The concept here is that we've launched our t three work bib last year, and it was it just way more demand for that than we than we had anticipated. It was actually a tower climbing customer of ours and again in the tower industry that almost forced our hand to make it there. What? You guys gotta build this. And so we were like, Fine, we'll make him for you. And we designed it. And you know it when you look at work bibs, insulated bibs Um, what's out there is really awful. If you're trying to do something that's physically demanding, requires a lot of mobility. And so, you know, the T three bid was this, you know, high high mobility Ah, you know, redesign of the classic bit very technical piece. And what we found was that the guys would get dressed in the morning and they want O where, um, kind of a mid layer in their truck. And then when they get to the job site, they want to be able to throw the bib on over that, and so that the transit pant was sort of. It's like basically like a jogger, if you will, that's designed to wear underneath a bib or underneath another layer in the wintertime, so you can. You can wear that in the truck, and then when you get to where you're going through another layer over it, um or, you know, it's it's a great jogger piece. I think we we rock him around the office and we'll see where it goes, You know, so far, it's become I can always tell a little bit when I see everybody in the office sort of adopting the pieces, and that's that's one of those that's so far been a hit. We'll see where it goes,

spk_0:   30:48
right with regard to the whole collection Here, where do you see X? Is there something you can share regarding expansion. It seems like the natural. Just in a general area, the natural is going to women's side. Is that something that's maybe down the road where you can we just focus on what you're doing right now?

spk_1:   31:07
Well, yeah, I think you women are, ah, critical part of our community and the, you know, we say basic. We've never really thought of ourselves as a menswear brand are sort of ethos is around building really technical, high performance work Where and, um, the fit of the product is critical when you're talking about how well that performs. And so as we look at the future, um, we are We're working on a women's fit line. Imagine, you know, basically our core styles built in a fit that's made for women. And I think that you can, you know, expect us not to be doing any. You know, that kind of call it shrink and pink right where you cut the sleeves off really short and make you know, custom women's colors. And that's not really what our market wants. One of the women that we we work with, they want a product that performs as well as all the things that fit the men, they just wanted to fit them. And so, you know, we're working on that, and, uh, and it will be an important part of probably what comes out of the course of the next year.

spk_0:   32:07
It is the the video, uh, this new pant. Is that something? Are you going to maybe go into more bass players as well? That's similar

spk_1:   32:17
in terms of the kind of layering.

spk_0:   32:19
Yes, yes, like that. Like you said, Like you said, the system. Yeah.

spk_1:   32:23
So, you know, basically, these are critical, right? We make, we make ah, a pair of underwear we call junkies, Um j u N k E S C and the You know, it's funny, even when we're talking to, like, big companies that we might support a uniform's, too. They're like, what are we gonna buy underwear for? Our guys like that doesn't make sense. And yeah, I get that their limits to this. But the reality is that if you're spending, um, if you're spending money on high performance mid outer layers, But what's next to your skin isn't performing correctly. You're you're kind of really limiting the ability of the overall system to function. Well, you've got to get the foundation right. And so you know, whether it's our junkies underwear or the transit pants or R t 0.5 layers on the top, it's really important that you start out with the performance foundation. And so, yeah, I mean, I think you can You can assume that we're gonna keep pushing on that.

spk_0:   33:15
That's Ah, yeah. Sounds like you're so money again. Something different. Opportunities to go with with product market, everything. So So, yeah, this is this is great. Um, any Anything else you want to speak to regarding the brand regarding your future? How I guess I want to make it clear that true work is t r u e w e r k dot com And that's the best place for I mean, the best only place for people to to ah, to check out your gear by the year.

spk_1:   33:44
Yeah, that is by far the best place and should have a lot of our information there. You can find a slight instagram facebook, certainly connect with us that way, and, you know, they think you know a lot. A lot of our future is about trying to continue to protect and promote and empower the people that we we work with. And so, um, you can expect us to be increasingly involved in discussions related Thio. You know, whether it's the skills gap or the We talk a lot about safety in our industry, and I think you know a true work. There's a There's this, you know, related concept of health and recognizing that I often say you can't pay a 30 year mortgage on a on an eight year career and so you know our volunteers and making sure that, um, the people in our community are ableto live and enjoy the lifestyle. But I think the trades offer, um, and stay healthy through that process. So from a product side, you know, expect you pf protective fabrics from the sun expect Expect us to be working on protection for knees and for things that affect overall health, not just kind of the catastrophic safety that Normal PP is designed to sort of been able

spk_0:   34:51
right. I mean, I totally glossed over that whole portion of it kind of got into the weeds with the fashion that sort of that side of it. But, you know, you're you have to design clothing, that people wearing belts over that you said putting pads over have to deal with different types of footwear and all of those, I guess you know their challenges. But, um, they're also have to be kind of fun to think about, but you're the fabrics going back to the fabrics that you choose. If you know that rubs and after a few wears, it's already starting to Teoh t come apart. I mean, again, those air, those air considerations that most you know clothing designers don't have to worry about. How does that work with you going back to to tools? Is that something that you guys test in your office? How do you How does that how does that work out?

spk_1:   35:40
Yeah, I mean, there's there's pieces. So, you know, we were building a lot of our technology on the on the shoulders of the outdoor industry. You know, folks that are using, you know, to a certain extent, that's where the tech of the fabric exists today. But like take, for example, are T 0.5 fabric. It's a super lightweight, highly Bree doble knit fabric and anybody that's worn like an under armour polo shirt or T shirt. Ah, and tried to go in tow, you know, into a job site. You get these little picks right, I get it snags, and then the little line goes across, and it may not rip entirely, but it doesn't look right afterwards. And so you know, we spent months engineering that fabric to withstand the pick resistance that you need to be on a job site and you know, even details like we focus a little bit more on moisture permeability or water vapor permeability in that fabric than then waking. Because if you're if you're wearing a moisture wicking T shirt and you're going to go for you know, let's say an hour jog. It's no big deal if it soaks up. A lot of moisture in your body might have to perspire more in order to keep up with sort of the cooling it's trying to do. But when you string that out over the course of an eight hour day and five hour or five day workweek, six day work weeks over a summer, the the additional dehydration that comes from fabrics that do nothing but Wick and they don't breed well, um, starts to have sort of add up. Right? So all these details that we're looking at when we're engineering fabrics and designing garments are meant to try and improve the overall health and quality of life of our customers. Um, even beyond just, you know, sort of the basics of isn't gonna hold up right. We should be looking for to a certain extent, you know, their ability at this point in the game should be thought of almost his table stakes. If you're using Paulie Esther's and nylons and modern fabrics keeping high, you know, high abrasion scores isn't really that hard. If you're still using denim and in cotton and duck, it's really hard. But modern fabrics hold up really well to the jobs. Like the question is, what else can we be doing to improve the quality and the productivity and the comfort of the people wearing that garment? And that's that to us is the, you know, kind of the next frontier of work where and, you know, frankly, apparel in general. And I think, um, not to go too far with this, but our objective here isn't just to just catch up with our Terex and with north face and with, you know, whoever those those kind of leading technical brands are today, But we think work where you should be back in front and really leading the technical apparel side of things way beyond even what? Under armour and the, you know, pro athletes are getting today,

spk_0:   38:13
right? So if somebody, um, we had some tips on regards to buying workwear, Uh, obviously, you know, you feel like you can speak to true work, but just to speak, maybe to work where in general, if somebody's, you know, considering, ah, new pants atop a jacket, what should they look at in regards to, um, the construction that fit? You know, all those there, there, there, some key pieces, some key things that somebody should look at before, as they're making a purchase.

spk_1:   38:45
Yeah. I mean, I think one of the pieces of advice that I would give is that think, think about what you're wearing as a system, you know, rather than just going out and buying a jacket here and a pair of pants there and maybe Ah, you know, Hoody over there. You consider the whole system and think about how it's gonna work together. Are you going to be able to get lots of versatility out of this? Most of the people that we serve their their climate, the environment, they're working and changes daily, if not hourly. And so, if you're buying, you know, one big heavy jacket and that's all you have your you know, for most of the time you're gonna be too hot or too cold. Um, if you've got to take it off, you did so think about the entire system and how it's gonna work and how the layers are gonna interact together. And, um, I kind of think about things holistically, um, and recognize that there are the functionality of what your purchasing. And I think this is. What we see in the next generation of workers is they think about these garments as as tools. They recognize that they affect their performance on the job site. They're comfort, and they also affect how they're perceived. Um, and you know, this is a little bit of attention here, but when you think about the apparel that we're designing, um, to a certain extent, we're sort of getting Thio. We get to design the costume, and it's kind of a weird word, right? But what, what? The character in a play or in a movie wears says a tremendous amount about the role they play in that in that scene? Or in that in that movie, Um, think about what you're wearing and think about what it says about who you are and the role you play in society. And I think this is, Ah, major pieces. We look at trying to, you know, sort of help society, recognize the significance of our customers of industrial athletes and the role they play. Um, it's important that we're We're sort of, um, dressing ourselves in a way that that exemplifies and it sends the message that you were significant in this matters. So dressing professionally, I think the aesthetic matters.

spk_0:   40:54
Yeah, another zero. That's great advice. I get going back to to the systems and just, you know, being feeling good about yourself when you're wearing when you're wearing something, no matter what you're doing. So that's great. Ah, yeah, Brian, I appreciate your time here. This has been this has been eye opening. It's great to kind of get, you know, background into clothing that I think a lot of people just they don't put a lot of thought into. But obviously, there's a lot more that goes into it that can kind of, like you said, increase your performance and it's it's important no matter what you're doing.

spk_1:   41:25
Absolutely. Timon, Thanks. Thanks a lot for the questions and appreciate all the support from you and from the rest of the community. It sze not something we can do on our own and certainly encourage people to be in touch with us. Let us know what they're what they're liking, What they're not liking. We're here to serve, serve you and in this community. And we appreciate we're proud and honored to do

spk_0:   41:44
it. Sounds good, Brian. Thank you. All right, thanks. Thanks him. Thanks for listening to To crave If you like the show, please rating of us on apple podcasts or ever You're listening Fall along with us for guests Updates on instagram, Twitter and Facebook at tool Crate and pull free to email us at podcast at tool crave dot com for guest suggestion or just to say hi. Thanks again and see you soon